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	<title>Comments on: The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak (Sunday Salon)</title>
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	<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/</link>
	<description>I am a bookeater. These are the books that nurture my mind</description>
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		<title>By: Turgay</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-1109</link>
		<dc:creator>Turgay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-1109</guid>
		<description>Silvia, I wouldn&#039;t say nobody would have read the book if it weren&#039;t for the controversy because Elif Safak is already an established novelist in Turkey and she has a regular readership.

However, I do agree that some of her writerly anxieties make the book feel a bit contrived at times. I will not go into the Armenian question because a lot of people have already talked about it but as a person who lived all his life in Istanbul, I found her representation of Istanbul in the first chapter extremely stereotypical and I was very frustrated. Luckily, the remaining chapters were better.

I think since she wrote the book in English and had an international intended audience, she was anxious to give a picture of Istanbul in the first chapter that is recognizable to them by using stereotypes, but that ends up creating some minor yet (to me as someone from Istanbul) siginificant mistakes. Some of these from the first chapter:

- Zeliha is walking to her gyno appointment and passes through the old bazaar (kapali carsi) and her appointment is supposed to be in one of the richest neighborhoods in Istanbul. The thing is, the old bazaar is not in walking distance to any of the rich neighborhoods of Istanbul.

- When she arrives in the doctor&#039;s office, it&#039;s supposed to be 4 pm on Friday, and she starts hearing the Friday prayer from the mosques. Any muslim person would know that the Friday prayer is around 1pm, not after 4 pm.

- Again, when she is in the doctor&#039;s office, she is hearing street vendors selling &#039;tangerines&#039;, but I know for a fact, that street vendors wouldn&#039;t sell tangerines in the summer months. It would have been more authentic if she said something like tomatoes, cucumbers, or even plums.

There are also some more subjective stereotypes presented in the first chapter. 

For example, when Zeliha is younger, they have a cleaning lady who is supposed to be Kurdish, but the way she and her daughter are presented is very stereotypical.

- Again, when Zeliha is in the doctor&#039;s office, she presents three caricatures of women who are waiting for their appointment and she immediately assumes that the one with the headscarf is there because she is not able to conceive, AS IF, no secular woman has that problem, and AS IF, religious women never go to a gynocologist unless it&#039;s because of infertility treatment.

Also, Zeliha&#039;s portrayal in chapter 1 as a free-spirited woman in the late 80s (I am assuming that&#039;s the setting of the first chapter) didn&#039;t sound very convincing to me.

As I said above, I was ready to stop reading the book but the rest of the book turned out to be less stereotype-ridden than the first chapter. So, I continued reading. (Though I am sure, if I was familiar with Armenian American culture, I would recognize more stereotypes in chapter 2).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silvia, I wouldn&#8217;t say nobody would have read the book if it weren&#8217;t for the controversy because Elif Safak is already an established novelist in Turkey and she has a regular readership.</p>
<p>However, I do agree that some of her writerly anxieties make the book feel a bit contrived at times. I will not go into the Armenian question because a lot of people have already talked about it but as a person who lived all his life in Istanbul, I found her representation of Istanbul in the first chapter extremely stereotypical and I was very frustrated. Luckily, the remaining chapters were better.</p>
<p>I think since she wrote the book in English and had an international intended audience, she was anxious to give a picture of Istanbul in the first chapter that is recognizable to them by using stereotypes, but that ends up creating some minor yet (to me as someone from Istanbul) siginificant mistakes. Some of these from the first chapter:</p>
<p>- Zeliha is walking to her gyno appointment and passes through the old bazaar (kapali carsi) and her appointment is supposed to be in one of the richest neighborhoods in Istanbul. The thing is, the old bazaar is not in walking distance to any of the rich neighborhoods of Istanbul.</p>
<p>- When she arrives in the doctor&#8217;s office, it&#8217;s supposed to be 4 pm on Friday, and she starts hearing the Friday prayer from the mosques. Any muslim person would know that the Friday prayer is around 1pm, not after 4 pm.</p>
<p>- Again, when she is in the doctor&#8217;s office, she is hearing street vendors selling &#8216;tangerines&#8217;, but I know for a fact, that street vendors wouldn&#8217;t sell tangerines in the summer months. It would have been more authentic if she said something like tomatoes, cucumbers, or even plums.</p>
<p>There are also some more subjective stereotypes presented in the first chapter. </p>
<p>For example, when Zeliha is younger, they have a cleaning lady who is supposed to be Kurdish, but the way she and her daughter are presented is very stereotypical.</p>
<p>- Again, when Zeliha is in the doctor&#8217;s office, she presents three caricatures of women who are waiting for their appointment and she immediately assumes that the one with the headscarf is there because she is not able to conceive, AS IF, no secular woman has that problem, and AS IF, religious women never go to a gynocologist unless it&#8217;s because of infertility treatment.</p>
<p>Also, Zeliha&#8217;s portrayal in chapter 1 as a free-spirited woman in the late 80s (I am assuming that&#8217;s the setting of the first chapter) didn&#8217;t sound very convincing to me.</p>
<p>As I said above, I was ready to stop reading the book but the rest of the book turned out to be less stereotype-ridden than the first chapter. So, I continued reading. (Though I am sure, if I was familiar with Armenian American culture, I would recognize more stereotypes in chapter 2).</p>
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		<title>By: Silvia</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-1099</link>
		<dc:creator>Silvia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-1099</guid>
		<description>Probably interesting from a superficial historical perspective, at least if you never came across the Armenian genocide (i.e. if you either are from Turkey, or have never read a newspaper).
However, as a novel, it is really bad: badly constructed, badly written, with extremely sketchy, superficial, two-dimensional characters, bad dialogues, pretentious descriptions, with many sentences that try too hard to appear &quot;interesting&quot; or &quot;insightful&quot;.

I am sure that if it wasn&#039;t for the confrontational aspects (from the title, to the Armenian-Turkish background) nobody would have read it. Which makes you wonder....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Probably interesting from a superficial historical perspective, at least if you never came across the Armenian genocide (i.e. if you either are from Turkey, or have never read a newspaper).<br />
However, as a novel, it is really bad: badly constructed, badly written, with extremely sketchy, superficial, two-dimensional characters, bad dialogues, pretentious descriptions, with many sentences that try too hard to appear &#8220;interesting&#8221; or &#8220;insightful&#8221;.</p>
<p>I am sure that if it wasn&#8217;t for the confrontational aspects (from the title, to the Armenian-Turkish background) nobody would have read it. Which makes you wonder&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Orbis Terrarum Meme &#171; The Armenian Odar Reads</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-732</link>
		<dc:creator>Orbis Terrarum Meme &#171; The Armenian Odar Reads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 06:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-732</guid>
		<description>[...] (you don&#8217;t have to have read it during the challenge)? There are a couple I can think of. The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak about Turkey, Ali and Nino by Kurban Said about Azerbaijan, Generations of Winter by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (you don&#8217;t have to have read it during the challenge)? There are a couple I can think of. The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak about Turkey, Ali and Nino by Kurban Said about Azerbaijan, Generations of Winter by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Myrthe</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-499</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-499</guid>
		<description>Hakob, I think you are right. Shafak gives all the different opinions from both sides, but she doesn&#039;t directly take sides in the story itself, she basically presents the different views. Though, of course, already in writing the book in the first place and in the way the  Armenian side is represented, I&#039;d say she obviously does take a stand. But as you suggest, if there is a message at all, it is definitely that both sides need more understanding and learning about each other in a peaceful way.

Throughout the book she makes it very clear in more and less subtle ways that Armenians and Turks do have a lot in common, whether they like it or not, and that that might be a basis to continue from in learning to understand each other. I am not talking big things here. One obvious example that keeps coming back in the book is food. At Asya&#039;s home for example, Armanoush finds out that she knows all the different dishes on the table from her own Armenian family. These dishes are a bridge between the two cultures in the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hakob, I think you are right. Shafak gives all the different opinions from both sides, but she doesn&#8217;t directly take sides in the story itself, she basically presents the different views. Though, of course, already in writing the book in the first place and in the way the  Armenian side is represented, I&#8217;d say she obviously does take a stand. But as you suggest, if there is a message at all, it is definitely that both sides need more understanding and learning about each other in a peaceful way.</p>
<p>Throughout the book she makes it very clear in more and less subtle ways that Armenians and Turks do have a lot in common, whether they like it or not, and that that might be a basis to continue from in learning to understand each other. I am not talking big things here. One obvious example that keeps coming back in the book is food. At Asya&#8217;s home for example, Armanoush finds out that she knows all the different dishes on the table from her own Armenian family. These dishes are a bridge between the two cultures in the book.</p>
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		<title>By: Myrthe</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-498</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:51:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-498</guid>
		<description>Bonnie, thanks a lot for your comment! I just visited your blog quickly, because I am short on internet time this week (no time and bad internet connection :-(  ), but I will be back for sure! So many ideas and suggestions for new books! 

I did read Gilgamesh a couple of years ago and I enjoyed it a lot. I have the book somewhere in my boxes of books in Holland, but right now I have no idea where exactly! If I find it again, I will reread it. 

There is another book about contemporary Armenia, Penelope by Goar Markosyan-Kasper. I have the book in Dutch translation, but I don&#039;t know if it has been translated into English. It is very different in style and subject, set in the gloomy early 1990s, just after Armenia gained independence again. These were difficult years, war, the aftermath of a big earthquake, no gas or electricity, etc. I came across this book again while going through some boxes with my books at my parents&#039; in Holland. I will take it back with me for a reread. I remember that I didn&#039;t really like the book when I read it the first time around, but maybe now it is different, now that I live in Armenia.

Another, yet again very different book that I have up for a reread is Ali and Nino by Kurban Said. This is a classic set in the beginning of the 20th century in the Caucasus region, mainly in Baku and Georgia. I loved this book when I first read it.

Both books will of course eventually be reviewed here on the blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bonnie, thanks a lot for your comment! I just visited your blog quickly, because I am short on internet time this week (no time and bad internet connection <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' />   ), but I will be back for sure! So many ideas and suggestions for new books! </p>
<p>I did read Gilgamesh a couple of years ago and I enjoyed it a lot. I have the book somewhere in my boxes of books in Holland, but right now I have no idea where exactly! If I find it again, I will reread it. </p>
<p>There is another book about contemporary Armenia, Penelope by Goar Markosyan-Kasper. I have the book in Dutch translation, but I don&#8217;t know if it has been translated into English. It is very different in style and subject, set in the gloomy early 1990s, just after Armenia gained independence again. These were difficult years, war, the aftermath of a big earthquake, no gas or electricity, etc. I came across this book again while going through some boxes with my books at my parents&#8217; in Holland. I will take it back with me for a reread. I remember that I didn&#8217;t really like the book when I read it the first time around, but maybe now it is different, now that I live in Armenia.</p>
<p>Another, yet again very different book that I have up for a reread is Ali and Nino by Kurban Said. This is a classic set in the beginning of the 20th century in the Caucasus region, mainly in Baku and Georgia. I loved this book when I first read it.</p>
<p>Both books will of course eventually be reviewed here on the blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie Jacobs</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-496</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie Jacobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 02:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-496</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Myrthe, for this review.  I have added this book to the list on Book Around the World and have included a link here to your review of the book:
http://bookaroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/turkey.html

Have you read the book &lt;i&gt;Gilgamesh&lt;/i&gt; by Joan London?  I finished the book just over a year ago, but I&#039;m still thinking of Armenia ... the music and the lay of the land, for instance:

(p. 156)  Hagop&#039;s eyes glittered, he seemed at ease, elated, as if he had come home.  He clapped loudly as the music began.  The sound curled up like smoke, Armenian music, familar to her now, as were the instruments that looked like weird root vegetables, the doudek, the kamanchar, the saz.  Soon the men were dancing, whirling and clapping.

(p. 168)  In the far distance was the black wall of the Caucasus.  The turned back.  Ahead were the light red mountains of Persia.

Anyway, I thought I&#039;d mention the book to you, in case you haven&#039;t heard of it yet.  Joan London is the daughter of Jack London, who wrote &lt;i&gt;Call of the Wild&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;White Fang&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Myrthe, for this review.  I have added this book to the list on Book Around the World and have included a link here to your review of the book:<br />
<a href="http://bookaroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/turkey.html" rel="nofollow">http://bookaroundtheworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/turkey.html</a></p>
<p>Have you read the book <i>Gilgamesh</i> by Joan London?  I finished the book just over a year ago, but I&#8217;m still thinking of Armenia &#8230; the music and the lay of the land, for instance:</p>
<p>(p. 156)  Hagop&#8217;s eyes glittered, he seemed at ease, elated, as if he had come home.  He clapped loudly as the music began.  The sound curled up like smoke, Armenian music, familar to her now, as were the instruments that looked like weird root vegetables, the doudek, the kamanchar, the saz.  Soon the men were dancing, whirling and clapping.</p>
<p>(p. 168)  In the far distance was the black wall of the Caucasus.  The turned back.  Ahead were the light red mountains of Persia.</p>
<p>Anyway, I thought I&#8217;d mention the book to you, in case you haven&#8217;t heard of it yet.  Joan London is the daughter of Jack London, who wrote <i>Call of the Wild</i> and <i>White Fang</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Hakob Gevorgian</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>Hakob Gevorgian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 21:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-495</guid>
		<description>Nice Review. I&#039;d like to read the book too. According to your review, I feel like the author wants to say that both Armenians and Turks need to achieve understanding together--in peaceful atmosphere. Is that right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice Review. I&#8217;d like to read the book too. According to your review, I feel like the author wants to say that both Armenians and Turks need to achieve understanding together&#8211;in peaceful atmosphere. Is that right?</p>
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		<title>By: Armenian News, Analysis &#38; Photography &#8212; Oneworld Multimedia :: The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak :: December :: 2007</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-402</link>
		<dc:creator>Armenian News, Analysis &#38; Photography &#8212; Oneworld Multimedia :: The Bastard of Istanbul by Elif Shafak :: December :: 2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 07:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-402</guid>
		<description>[...] another matter entirely which is why I&#8217;m glad to see that Myrthe from The Armenian Odar has written and just posted a review of the book. The review is made all the more interesting given that Myrthe is not Armenian as well.  The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another matter entirely which is why I&#8217;m glad to see that Myrthe from The Armenian Odar has written and just posted a review of the book. The review is made all the more interesting given that Myrthe is not Armenian as well.  The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Myrthe</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrthe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 06:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-401</guid>
		<description>Can, I think that we both have the same feeling about the book, that the urge to represent all the different opinions from both sides take away from the quality of the writing. I liked the book, but it does have some serious flaws connected to what we both mentioned and I think it would have been better with some things taken out, for example both cafe&#039;s and the character of Aram who doesn&#039;t really have a role besides representing an opinion. I have the feeling that if it weren&#039;t for the ridiculous court case, this book wouldn&#039;t have attracted so much attention. But that&#039;s all if-if-if speculation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can, I think that we both have the same feeling about the book, that the urge to represent all the different opinions from both sides take away from the quality of the writing. I liked the book, but it does have some serious flaws connected to what we both mentioned and I think it would have been better with some things taken out, for example both cafe&#8217;s and the character of Aram who doesn&#8217;t really have a role besides representing an opinion. I have the feeling that if it weren&#8217;t for the ridiculous court case, this book wouldn&#8217;t have attracted so much attention. But that&#8217;s all if-if-if speculation.</p>
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		<title>By: Can</title>
		<link>http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Can</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 05:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://armenianodar.wordpress.com/2007/12/24/the-bastard-of-istanbul-by-elif-shafak-sunday-salon/#comment-399</guid>
		<description>Interesting review. I also read the book this year, and while overall thought it was good, I found it a bit to &quot;agenda&quot; oriented. It would have flowed much better and been more engaging if the author wasn&#039;t so preoccupied with each character representing an opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting review. I also read the book this year, and while overall thought it was good, I found it a bit to &#8220;agenda&#8221; oriented. It would have flowed much better and been more engaging if the author wasn&#8217;t so preoccupied with each character representing an opinion.</p>
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